Hello

I just joined and still don't know how this all works but I am trying.

Welcome to the group. If you need help just ask anyone. Most are helpful.

the Cajun

Hi Acuna, and welcome to the club!!

Don't worry, just discuss what you want. This is a place where anything goes. That's what makes it so special. So have fun, enjoy the ride, and keep your heart full of mirth! You're gonna have the pleasure of meeting some of the nicest people that you'll never actually meet!

Trix

Welcome, and not to argue with "LA Belle" but you may meet some people that you actually may meet (both escort and client). Where are you located? I am sure there are some other M4Mers in your area. There are some great guys on this board, and alot of them travel.

Enjoy.

Welcome Acuna!

One thing is certain - it's rarely dull here. }(

I hope you enjoy yourself here and I look forward to your posts. :*

Oh, and if you post something you think is harmless and some sonofabitch comes at you from out of nowhere, calling you a scum-sucking mother-fucking satanic cultist - and a moron to boot - don't take it personally. :+

>I just joined and still don't know how this all works but I

>am trying.

WELCOME ACUNA MATADA!

Like everyone else said this is a fun place. Many are so helpful. Some are using their computers via prison so you will get some anger and interesting dinner invites. Also make sure you post your self nude pics within 24 hours or else your membership is canceled.

}( }( }( }(

VDN

...just kidding

Thanks Guys for the welcome. So far I find this place very interesting even though it is sometime hostile. Some strong opinions are voiced here. I also find some of the political discussions remarkable.

I am new too and agree with your observations. Some of the members are really conservative for Gay people.

>I am new too and agree with your observations. Some of the

>members are really conservative for Gay people.

CONSERVATIVE FOR GAY PEOPLE

WOW - though I won't respond to that comment PLEASE expect (and don't be shocked) others to comment on it.

OK ... I will comment. "Gay" people aren't suppose to be conservative? Gay people are all suppose to be wearing fringy jean shorts, construction boots, a wife beater (VERY not PC - LOL) and waving a rainbow flag and lisping "It's Raining Men"?

I think I just described my uncle.

VDN

:7

>...Some of the members are really conservative for Gay people.

WOW, stupid me. I thought gay people came in all sizes, colors, and political persuasions. No one stopped me at the gay door to see if I was conservative or liberal. Must have been a holiday for the gay police.

(Perhaps I'm really straight -- but don't tell that to the escorts I've hired.) :+

>(Perhaps I'm really straight -- but don't tell that to the

>escorts I've hired.) :+

LOL - I think I found my end of the year quote!

VDN

:7

>LOL - I think I found my end of the year quote!

Glad you liked it. Hope you get a lot of mileage out of it. ;-)

I should have been more specific. I meant right-wing conservative, leaning toward fascist.

RE: Right wing conservatives

Don't worry escortboy, they know what you mean. But you shouldn't be surprised at how many gays are conservative. Especially here on the M4M message board. My suspicion is that we have some very high-ranking Republican closet cases here. Where else would such men be getting their loads off, but with escorts? Very, very discreet escorts.

But at least here they get to participate in actual gay-friendly dialogue, which is a blessing for them.

Trix

Just enjoy there my friend!!! HUGS Chuck:P :P :P

>I am new too and agree with your observations. Some of the

>members are really conservative for Gay people.

we're all PEOPLE who happen to be gay.

:+

I understand your feeling. This has been a difficult year for me on this messsage center. I do not understand how some of the guys on here can be such supporters of the conservative right but they are none the less and under their bill of rights they have the right to express their opinions just as we do. This is still one of the best things about the USA.

the Cajun

RE: Right wing conservatives

>Don't worry escortboy, they know what you mean. But you

>shouldn't be surprised at how many gays are conservative.

>Especially here on the M4M message board. My suspicion is

>that we have some very high-ranking Republican closet cases

>here.

It's so funny that you say this, because many of the most strident liberals here have acknowledged on this Board or in reviews that they are completely closted and need (ahem) "discretion", whereas most of the conservatives who post here (if not all) are as openly gay in their lives as can be.

The hypocrisy of this is overwhelming. Polls show that the single most important factor - by far - in whether people support gay equality is whether they know people who are gay. Politicians, including ones on the Right (such as Dick Cheney), have profound changes in their views on gay issues when they have an openly gay family member.

Closeted gay men - which are incredibly prevelant among posters on this Board - do more to harm gay people and the cause of gay equality than any other single group of people. Closted gay men should be universally and strongly condemned among gay people. And yet, as long as they spout nice liberal orthodoxies, they are praised and accepted, even as they continue to live sad, furtive lives hiding under their beds, to the great detriment of gay people everywhere.

>I should have been more specific. I meant right-wing

>conservative, leaning toward fascist.

Absolutely - it's much, much better when gay people are left-wing socialists, leaning towards communist.

RE: Right wing conservatives

"Politicians, including ones on the Right (such as Dick Cheney), have profound changes in their views on gay issues when they have an openly gay family member."

Prove it, doug. Which politicians? How did they change? What has Cheney done to demonstrate a "profound change?"

RE: Right wing conservatives

>"Politicians, including ones on the Right (such as Dick

>Cheney), have profound changes in their views on gay issues

>when they have an openly gay family member."

>

>Prove it, doug. Which politicians? How did they change? What

>has Cheney done to demonstrate a "profound change?"

First, I think it's so funny and revealing how you just skip over all the parts about how liberal closeted gay men do so much harm to gay people, and want instead to talk only about conservatives.

Second, why do I have to educate the ignorant? Did you watch the 2000 Vice Presidential Debate between Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman? Did you see when they were asked about gay marriage? Did you see how the GOP candidate gave a far more pro-gay answer than the Democratic candidate?

Did you hear how Cheney said that he was open to the idea of gay marriage and thought it was a matter best left for the states to decide on an individual basis - a position far more pro-gay than 90% of Democratic elected officials on the topic of gay marriage?

Cheney's enlightened view is no doubt that by-product of the fact that he has an openly gay (and conservative) daughter. Nothing does more harm to gay people than closeted gay men - and nothing does more good for gay people than openly gay people. And yet so many openly gay conservatives (see e.g., Andrew Sullivan) are excoriated by gay people, and totally closeted gay liberals (i.e., so many liberal posters here) are spoken of with such admiration despite the fact that they ccwardly way they live their lives does more to harm gay poeple than anything else.

RE: Right wing conservatives

"why do I have to educate the ignorant"

Because you have met the ignorant doug, and he is you! You made the statement about these profound changes made by right-wingers on gay rights. I simply asked you to prove it. You can't so you bullshit instead.

On a happier note, I wish you and your loved one a most happy New Year.

Hello Shy,

>we're all PEOPLE who happen to be gay.

>:+

Besides Lucky's very valid question your statement, though short and simple, is the most intelligent on this thread!

We are people first, then our sexuality, disability, economic status, etc. comes next.

Gay rights? "Breeder" rights? ALL people should be concerned about GENERAL human rights. Then, I feel, the rest will follow.

Just my simple, home-grown opinion. AND to imply closeted men and women hurt gay rights is outrageous. People who are out tend to quickly forget how hard it was to come out. I think men and women who are out and who are very militant about gay rights hurt things more.

VIVA LA DIFFERENCE!

VDN

>AND to imply closeted men

>and women hurt gay rights is outrageous.

It may be outrageous, but it also happens to be true. The only way gay people can be demonized is by people who don't know that their neighbor, co-worker, son, father, etc. is gay. The polls demonstrate that the single most important thing by far in determining whether someone suffers from anti-gay bigotry is whether they know someone who is gay. Those who spend their lives ashamed and hiding in the closet do more to foster and allow anti-gay bigotry than any single other group.

I think

>men and women who are out and who are very militant about gay

>rights hurt things more.

This statement is as vile as it is misinformed.

The only reason that there are websites like this - the only reason that there's a gay community that offers escorts so readily for you to get your dick off - is because of the work of the openly gay men and women who - to use your disparaging words - "are very militant about gay rights." The fact that you drink from the fruits of their brave work, and then at the same time criticize them and praise your closeted cowardly ways, is really despicable.

Greetings Doug (who I respectfully agree to disagree with),

> The polls demonstrate that the single most important thing by

>far in determining whether someone suffers from anti-gay

>bigotry is whether they know someone who is gay. Those who

You seem to be driven by polls. Much like anything else in the world of statistics we all must be leary of polls. Was this a mailer poll sent to Nazi's for Queers or Log Cabin Gays?

>spend their lives ashamed and hiding in the closet do more to

>foster and allow anti-gay bigotry than any single other

>group.

I don't need a poll to know that family acceptance is one of the biggest needs of acceptance that many people have. I think most individuals can deal with the stupidity of public opinion (individuals aren't stupid but "people" are) but "coming out" is hard to do when you realize your family may react in such an adverse way that you may be alone after all is said and done. Why do you think PFLAG is such a well-run non-militant AND successful organization?

>This statement is as vile as it is misinformed.

VILE?!?! WOW - in my first political outing here on m4m someone labeled a comment I made VILE. I feel like Norma Rae.

>The only reason that there are websites like this - the only

>reason that there's a gay community that offers escorts so

>readily for you to get your dick off - is because of the work

>of the openly gay men and women who - to use your disparaging

>words - "are very militant about gay rights." The fact that

LOL LOL LOL LOL - The gay community DOES NOT offer escorts! That's capitalism ... a force stronger then anything we are discussing here. Please name me ONE gay activist who fought so hard for US to get a good private!

>you drink from the fruits of their brave work, and then at the

>same time criticize them and praise your closeted cowardly

>ways, is really despicable.

I do not drink from the fruits of the militants who spit communion out of their mouths at St. Patrick's Cathedral. I do not drink from the fruits of the militants who "out" people, prominent or otherwise, because of their own anger and frustration because things in the political arena are not moving fast enough. It just seems to me that MANY and not ALL gay activists feel their cause is the only one out there in the political landscape.

So Doug, at the end of all of this I need to ask you, what are you doing for New Year's Eve?

:*

VDN