I'd Like To Thank God......

I'm curious to know why some religious and most non-religious people always use this line when something good happens to them.

Lets take Whitney for example..everytime she runs onstage to accept an award she always says..I'd like to thank God for this Grammy..

As if God thought that she deserved it over Madonna, Barbra or Melissa..on that note I have rarely heard Madonna thank God for anything. Should she (Whitney) than apologize to God for all the drugs she has taken?

Or during war Bush always says that God is on our side..Is he not on the side of the people we are fighting..When we kill innocent people during war do we publicly say that we would like to apologize to God for screwing up!!

Any Thoughts!!

Godiva:

I've never been very comfortable with "God talk". Too frequently it is used to make it appear that God has somehow favored the person using it over others. Rather than being impressed or moved by such efforts, I usually figure I'm smelling a rat. I rather doubt God gives a flying fuck who wins a Grammy. And if God does care about such drivel, what kind of God is that?

I'd much prefer a God worried about the suffering and inhumanity all around us, not some cheesy award for singing.

whitney doesn't do crack! crack is whack! whitney makes too much money to do crack.

bobby, on the other hand.... bobby needs his weed to mellow him out.

I've always found it odd that many professional boxers, at the end of a fight, will give the glory to Jesus Christ.

Is this an activity that religous figures endorsed in the past?

>I'm curious to know why some religious and most non-religious

>people always use this line when something good happens to

>them.

Perhaps Emily Dickinson can clear this up.

[blockquote]Prayer is the little implement

Through which Men reach

Where Presence—is denied them.

They fling their Speech

By means of it—in God's Ear—

If then He hear—

This sums the Apparatus

Comprised in Prayer—

>Or during war Bush always says that God is on our side..Is he

>not on the side of the people we are fighting..When we kill

>innocent people during war do we publicly say that we would

>like to apologize to God for screwing up!!

And we think Bush moved to the right shortly after being elected (he quickly forgot about being a compassionate conservative), just wait until if and when he gets a second term when he no longer has to worry about re-election. If he gets a second term, he's going to be doing all kinds of things in the name of God.

And if Oconnor retires during the next term, we're going to get another Thomas or Scalia on the court. Ad that's when the shit will really hit the fan.

Anyone who admires and can quote Emily Dickinson has got to be alright!

A few years ago a jockey who had just won the Melbourne Cup (one of the world's biggest horse races) thanked God for his winning ride. I did wonder, as something of a liberal Christian, whether God was actually following the horses and had decided that this guy's horse should win. Was God rewarding those who had bet on this Christian jockey's horse? Did God think that only Christians were likely to bet on such a horse? The ramifications of this thankyou speech would keep theologians going for years.

Worse...

Bush has actually gone even further with his smarmy "and may God continue to bless..." bullshit. So not only are you asking or even commanding your supreme being to bless your misadventures, now you're saying all your country's past actions are approved and supported by god.

Fucking arrogant fundamentalists, whether they be Christian, Muslim, or Jewish it's all the same steaming pile.

Indeed!!!

There is really no point in trying to criticize other people's beliefs if, in order to do so, you have to first triviialzie and distort those beliefs. What is the source of all of this hostility towards other people's expression of faith and religion?

When some athlete or entertainer expresses thanks to God for some achievement (such as winning an award or a game), I think it's pretty fucking obvious that they are not implying -- as almost every post in this thread suggests -- that what they mean is that God carefully reviewed all of the candidates for the award in question and then picked who he wanted the winner to be, and as a result of his doing so, God deserves thanks for having chosen the winner. Does anyone really think that such silliness is the sentiment being expressed any time anyone thanks God for something????

Embedded in the 3 major Western religions, and lots of other religions as well, is the premise that any talents with which a person is born, and any opportunities for fulfillment and happiness they have, are the result of God's will and God's work. So, to take the petty example used by the originator of the thread, when Whitney Houston wins a Grammy and thanks God, she isn't claiming - as you surely must know - that God picked her that year over Madonna because, after listening to both albums, he decided Whitney's was livlier and had more moving lyrics and that Madonna's rythms were a little stale and too 1980s, and didn't deserve that award that year.

Instead, she's simply expressing her belief, based on thousands of years of theology, that her unique singing voice was given to her by God, and so when she receives benefits from that voice, she doesn't selfishly believe that it's all due to her, but recognizes that, in her view, God played a role in enabling her to have the success and the opportunities that she has had.

As for the hostility towards politicians who invoke God as the basis for their political beliefs, some of you may want to read the founding documents of the United States, which make as clear as possible the founders' belief that the rights which define and distinguish this country are not merely ones given or created by man, but instead are ones to which human beings are inalienably entitled, because they are bestowed by God, and not by man.

It's easy to ridicule and demonize other people's views if you first distort them - it's how the Christian right so easily demonizes gay people: by first depicting them as peophilic gerbil-lovers who sit around in bathhouses and spread AIDS. Once distorted, hating them is easy. It's exactly the same tactic used in this thread against Christians and others who are religious. "All these religious freaks think God actually gives a fuck who wins the Grammys - how fucking creepy and stupid they are!"

>As if God thought that she deserved it over Madonna, Barbra or

>Melissa...

Manchester or Etheridge?

Nice try, but a lot of people think that if they win something over somebody else, it's thanks to God. Just why on earth (or in heaven for that matter) would God do this?

If people expressed it in terms of thanks for their talents, you would have a good point about tolerance. But that's not what many people think, including for example the jockey in the Melbourne Cup I mentioned a few posts back.

>Nice try, but a lot of people think that if they win

>something over somebody else, it's thanks to God.

Yes, this is exactly what they think - becasue they believe, as billions of people have believed for thousands of years, that whatever talents they have, and opportunities they have, are ones that are given to them by God, so when good things happen to them, they do not believe - unlike you - that they are the only ones who deserve the glory. They want to share it with God, whom they believe is responsible for their success and talents, and to whom they owe gratitude.

You may find that idea stupid and absurd and deserving of mockery, but it happens to be the basis for the longest-lasting and most widely embraced religions on the planet.

>If people expressed it in terms of thanks for their talents,

>you would have a good point about tolerance. But that's not

>what many people think, including for example the jockey in

>the Melbourne Cup I mentioned a few posts back.

How the fuck do you know what sentiment underlies their expression of thanks to God? Did you ask them? I have never heard of any athlete or entertainer say that they think that they won something or achieved something because God favored them over other people and picked them to win.

Instead, I have heard many of them thank God after winning because they believe that the talents that enabled them to win are God-given. That sounds exactly like what this jockey was expressing.

You are hostile to traditional Christianity and therefore want to interpret their statements to be as stupid and primitive and irrational as possible so that you and your oh-so-sophisticated and all-knowing comrades can ridicule it.

But as I said, if you need to first distort an idea before you're capable of criticizing it, that's a pretty strong condemnation of your ability to criticize the idea, and is not, at all, an indict of the idea itself.

I think you make a very valid point about individuals as most of them are thanking God for the talent He gave them and even state such during their moment of victory or in interviews afterwards. I don't know how that would apply to team sports however, especially when one team says something along the lines of "God was on our side today".

<You are hostile to traditional Christianity and therefore want to interpret their statements to be as stupid and primitive and irrational as possible so that you and your oh-so-sophisticated and all-knowing comrades can ridicule it.>

Dare I say AMEN!! Seems the majority on this board do just this. As I said in another post, it seems every one has rights under the new "pc environment" except traditional Christians. And how are such tactics any different than the extreme Christian moralizers of the far right?

>Dare I say AMEN!! Seems the majority on this board do just

>this. As I said in another post, it seems every one has

>rights under the new "pc environment" except traditional

>Christians. And how are such tactics any different than the

>extreme Christian moralizers of the far right?

Fewer things sicken me more than this hypocrisy which you so perfectly describe.

Go read the posts in this thread making fun of Christians and going on and on about how backwards and ridiculous and silly they are - why, they're so dumb they actually think that God picks a certain horse in a race to win!!! Ha Ha ha! I wonder if they think that he has a bet placed on it! ha ha ha - aren't we so smart and knowing and sophisticated and cosmopolitan - making fun of these dumb backwards Christians."

Now imagine how these same people would react if they saw a similar thread in a Christian forum which ridiculed and disparaged gay people or gay culture in this manner. Why, that would be BIGOTRY! A HATE CRIME! Call in Janet Reno and have them arrested - that's the kind of thing that provokes gay-bashing and gay teen suicides!

The slightest insinuation of anything critical about gay people or gay culture has them screaming and yelling and crying and whining about "bigotry" - but arrogate unto themselves the unlimited freedom to ridicule and mock any group which they dislike.

These are the Paragons of Tolerance and Diveristy - which really means that nobody has the right to speak ill of them, but they have the right to disparage anyone they want.

These are the Paragons of Tolerance and Diveristy - which

>really means that nobody has the right to speak ill of them,

>but they have the right to disparage anyone they want.

>

>

On thing is a sure bet....I''ll bet no one has ever accused you of being either tolerance or diverse in your outlook.

>

>How the fuck do you know what sentiment underlies their

>expression of thanks to God? Did you ask them?

Umm, because I listened to what they said - for example, the jockey who won the Melbourne Cup, whose speech was broadcast live on TV across most of Australia and SEAsia.

I have never

>heard of any athlete or entertainer say that they think that

>they won something or achieved something because God favored

>them over other people and picked them to win.

Well, I have. Which makes this discussion fairly pointless, since you've heard people saying what you've heard them say, and I've heard other people saying what I've heard them say. We're both right, in case you hadn't noticed.

>You are hostile to traditional Christianity and therefore want

>to interpret their statements to be as stupid and primitive

>and irrational as possible so that you and your

>oh-so-sophisticated and all-knowing comrades can ridicule it.

I beg your pardon? Hostile to traditional Christianity? Says who? My parish priest, or the congregation I attend every Sunday?

>>How the fuck do you know what sentiment underlies their

>>expression of thanks to God? Did you ask them?

>

>Umm, because I listened to what they said - for example, the

>jockey who won the Melbourne Cup, whose speech was broadcast

>live on TV across most of Australia and SEAsia.

All you claimed is that you heard him thank God for having won the race. The rest of it - that what he meant was that God picked him over the other riders to win, rather than merely expressing gratitude for the talents and opportunities he had - is nothing but your invented interpretations of what he meant.

>I have never

>>heard of any athlete or entertainer say that they think that

>>they won something or achieved something because God favored

>>them over other people and picked them to win.

>

>Well, I have. Which makes this discussion fairly pointless,

>since you've heard people saying what you've heard them say,

>and I've heard other people saying what I've heard them say.

>We're both right, in case you hadn't noticed.

No, because you didn't claim that the jockey said that. You said the jockey merely thanked God for winning - wanting to demean him so that you can feel superior to him, you then interpreted his statement to mean that God picked the #3 horse that day.

>>You are hostile to traditional Christianity and therefore

>want

>>to interpret their statements to be as stupid and primitive

>>and irrational as possible so that you and your

>>oh-so-sophisticated and all-knowing comrades can ridicule

>it.

>

>I beg your pardon? Hostile to traditional Christianity? Says

>who? My parish priest, or the congregation I attend every

>Sunday?

You already identified yourself as a "liberal Christian" - and made clear your disdain for those who express thanks to God in the tranditional manner of doing so - so don't run now and try to cloak yourself in the garb of being a "traditional Christian" thinking that will immunize you from charges of anti-Christian bigotry.

Dear me, axebahia has a Christian twin brother....

>Dear me, axebahia has a Christian twin brother....

Actually, if you go and read what you and your super sophisticted, very very cosmopolitan brethren have said about Christains in this thread, you will see that it's no different, and no better, than what Axehabia says about Jews.

And, as I've said - picture someone saying about gay people and gay culture what you and your all-knowing comrades have said about Christians - one can hear the shrieking cries of bigotry already.

Oh, Doug69, do come out of you Log Cabin!

Noone really knows what goes through anyone's mind when they thank God for anything. Perhaps they are thanking God for their opportunities and talent, perhaps they are thanking God for smiting their foes. Perhaps they are thanking God, in the passion of a glorious moment, when they don't know what else to say.

I am sure the Christian Right thanks God for this past week being "Traditional Marriage" week. You seem to be willing to cut them a lot of slack, despite their hatred of your sexuality (if you accuse be of being presumptuous of your sexuality, I shall simply scream!).

I agree that sometimes the Gay Left goes too far in its criticism of Christianity. However, the difference is clear to me: Gays are struggling to live in peace, and enjoy the social/financial benefits and freedoms this country offers heterosexual people. (That would be, indeed something to thank God about.) The Christian Right, however, is struggling to dictate how other people should live, and be perceived.

It doesn't matter how many years of theology are involved... theologians are wrong all the time. Take a look at how many years slavery was taken for granted as a form of economics sanctioned by God.

Just to make myself clear, i do not necessarily feel that the "Christian Right" is very Christian. I have a higher opinion of Jesus Christ than that.

Trix

>Oh, Doug69, do come out of you Log Cabin!

Oh, look what we have here - the Queen of Individuality and the Warrior Against Prejudice and Stereotype making an assumption about people based on their beliefs and then labelling them by category. Gosh, who could believe that such a nice, liberal, freedom-worshipping transvestite could do such a thing- aren't all gay people, particularly transvestites, pure and good and free of such bigotry, which as we all know, exists only among the "Christian Right," and never among gays?

>Noone really knows what goes through anyone's mind when they

>thank God for anything.

First of all, if that's true, why didn't you admonish the 20 other people in this thread who were mocking Christians for thanking God based on their assumption about what was going through their mind when doing so? Surely, as someone who hates prejudice, you were offended by that ridiucle, right?

Second, the Christian religion has existed for more than 2,000 years. Hundreds of milliions, if not billions, of human beings have ascribed to it. Enormous numbers of books have been written about it. So it is quite possible to know what is meant when Christians give thanks to God - and that meaning is not the childish, foolish, stupid, inane meaning which has been attributed to them in this thread by those wishing to mock Christians and Christianity.

>I am sure the Christian Right thanks God for this past week

>being "Traditional Marriage" week.

Gee, weren't you the same person who was just saying moments ago that you can't know what is going through someone's mind? And yet, here you are, pronouncing yourself "sure" about what the "Christian Right" is thinking. I guess only gay people and transvestites are entitled to the benefit of individuality - for the "Christian Right," being evil and malicious and all, anything is fair game.

>You seem to be willing to

>cut them a lot of slack, despite their hatred of your

>sexuality (if you accuse be of being presumptuous of your

>sexuality, I shall simply scream!).

Where do you get off saying this? I said nothing about the "Christian Right." I've spoken only about Christians, and in case you haven't heard, "Christian" and "Right" are not synonymous, as many Christians are leftists. The world's leading opponent of the death penalty, and the world's leading proponent of confiscatory taxation in order to pay for sprawling social programs, for instance, is the Pope.

Also, you may also not have heard that not all Christians hate gay people. Many Christians are gay, and many Christians - including those who thank God for things - affirm the right of gay people to

have full equality.

Your equating of "Christians" with anti-gay bigots is, itself, wildly bigoted.

>I agree that sometimes the Gay Left goes too far in its

>criticism of Christianity. However, the difference is clear

>to me: Gays are struggling to live in peace, and enjoy the

>social/financial benefits and freedoms this country offers

>heterosexual people. (That would be, indeed something to

>thank God about.) The Christian Right, however, is struggling

>to dictate how other people should live, and be perceived.

How can you justify the mocking of Christianity by the "Gay Left" based on your belief that "The Christian Right" is supposedly engaged in evil acts? Do you not undersatnd the difference between "Christains" and the "Christian Right"? There are gay conservatives, too - does that mean that homosexuality is the same as conservatism?

Additionally, not all gay people are "struggling" for peace and equality, and not all Christians, including members of the "Christan Rightm" are struggling to oppress gay people. Many gay people, including many comprising the "Gay Left," are proponents of all sorts of oppressive measures, including those at odds with basic civil liberties, and many "Christians" are advocates of the view that individuals have the right to make whatever choices they want in their lives.

You should really try to see people as individuals, and less as members of a group. It is not the case that all gays are good and freedom-loving and all Christians are anti-gay fascists. I am sure that you think you already do this - in fact, I have no doubt that you believe you are the very model of this principle - but if you read just this one post that you just wrote, you will see that you are no more adept at seeing people, such as Christians, as individauls than the "Christian Right" is as seeing homosexuals as individuals.

You are really just the other side of the same coin.

It's always excellent reading when you're ripping someone a new asshole. But the above, the rambling, the rote lecturing -- it's just embarrassing:

[blockquote]>...the Christian religion has existed for more than 2,000

>years. Hundreds of milliions, if not billions, of human

>beings have ascribed to it. Enormous numbers of books have

>been written about it.[/blockquote]

Groan.

"Second, the Christian religion has existed for more than 2,000 years. Hundreds of milliions, if not billions, of human beings have ascribed to it. Enormous numbers of books have been written about it. So it is quite possible to know what is meant when Christians give thanks to God - and that meaning is not the childish, foolish, stupid, inane meaning which has been attributed to them in this thread by those wishing to mock Christians and Christianity."

Ah, so you claim to speak for every Christian who says thanks to God for having won something, do you? You are able to get inside the minds of every single one of the millions and millions of Christians and work out what was meant.

And you criticise others for being assertive and dogmatic?