I'm a Economic Girlie-Man!

Ahnuld, what the fcuk?? I think my Governator / Gropenator has lost his mind! (Even Maria and the kids didn't clap!) His powerful speech, even though it was chock' a full of BS, was actually great! My personal observation is the Repiglicans are doing the ol' football "fake-left-and-go-right". Beware.

How about Jenna & Tonic? Were the giggling 'Twins' loaded when they gave their stand-up?? Tepid appaulse from the faithful.

Fellow Hoovillians??

Ahnuld, what the fcuk?? I think my Governator / Gropenator has lost his mind! (Even Maria and the kids didn't clap!) His powerful speech, even though it was chock' a full of BS, was actually great! My personal observation is the Repiglicans are doing the ol' football "fake-left-and-go-right". Beware.

How about Jenna & Tonic? Were the giggling 'Twins' loaded when they gave their stand-up?? Tepid appaulse from the faithful.

Fellow Hoovillians??

I thought the Governator did an outstanding job with his speech. He hit all the right notes, threw in all his movie lines and really had the crowd eating out of his hand.

Jenna & Tonic did ok. I think the Reichwing Christians probably had a collective heart attack however.

Laura Bush glowed in all her Stepford glory.

I thought the Governator did an outstanding job with his speech. He hit all the right notes, threw in all his movie lines and really had the crowd eating out of his hand.

Jenna & Tonic did ok. I think the Reichwing Christians probably had a collective heart attack however.

Laura Bush glowed in all her Stepford glory.

Boy, your assessment is 100% correct!! The "stepford" Laura was right on.

Boy, your assessment is 100% correct!! The "stepford" Laura was right on.

I turned on the tv just in time to hear him relate how he'd arrived in our lovely country in 1968, penniless (pfenniglos) and was immediately enraptured with Richard Nixon. The audience didn't seem to know whether to clap or not at that point.

Apparently the speech got better, but I changed the channel to watch a rerun of Everbody Loves Raymond.

Austria is such a lovely little country, I truly adore it.

If they change the constitution so that he can be president, maybe we could make it the 51st state.

Trix

I turned on the tv just in time to hear him relate how he'd arrived in our lovely country in 1968, penniless (pfenniglos) and was immediately enraptured with Richard Nixon. The audience didn't seem to know whether to clap or not at that point.

Apparently the speech got better, but I changed the channel to watch a rerun of Everbody Loves Raymond.

Austria is such a lovely little country, I truly adore it.

If they change the constitution so that he can be president, maybe we could make it the 51st state.

Trix

The Daily Show

>I turned on the tv just in time to hear him relate how he'd

>arrived in our lovely country in 1968, penniless (pfenniglos)

>and was immediately enraptured with Richard Nixon. The

>audience didn't seem to know whether to clap or not at that

>point.

Arnold actually stated that he found Nixon to be a "breath of fresh air." Jon Stewart nailed this on the head when he commented that he supposed, given that Austria was the birthplace of Hitler, in contrast, Nixon would seem like a breath of fresh air.

http://www.gaydar.co.uk/francodisantis

RE: The Daily Show

>Arnold actually stated that he found Nixon to be a "breath of

>fresh air." Jon Stewart nailed this on the head when he

>commented that he supposed, given that Austria was the

>birthplace of Hitler, in contrast, Nixon would seem like a

>breath of fresh air.

Actually, Arnold was quite clear about what he meant - Austria is a socialist country where one's achievement is limited. That was all he had experienced, but knew that America, uniquely in the world, promised unlimited opportunity, even for immigrants, which is why - like millions of other human beings from around the planet who don't snidely take their freedoms for granted - Arnold came here.

When he arrived, he was astonished to hear one major party's Presidential candidate advocating the same socialist philosophy that he had just escaped. Then he heard Richard Nixon talk about free enterprise and the unique opportunity it brings, and it was the first time he felt like he was in a country where the government does not restrict its citizens' achivements through interventions in the marketplace.

I guess you need to think that free enterprise is a good thing, and that socialist restrictions are bad, in order to have understood the point of that anecdote. That, of course, is why you didn't, and why you will forever be unable to do so.

But just tell yourself that Arnold is stupid and simplistic and that you're really smart and sophisticated, and that that's why you didn't get it. That will make you feel better, at least.

RE: The Daily Show

There was no debate between Nixon and Humphrey; the whole story of Arnold watching the debate while his friend translated is a fabrication.

RE: The Daily Show

>There was no debate between Nixon and Humphrey; the whole

>story of Arnold watching the debate while his friend

>translated is a fabrication.

Arnold didn't say he watched a Humphrey-Nixon debate. He said he watched both candidates on television and heard them speak and heard Humphrey advocate the same type of socialism he had just left back in Austria, and then heard Nixon advocate free enterprise. He never said he heard this in the context of a presidential debate, so what the fuck are you talking about?

I know you think that everything you read on moveon.org is the Gospel - it's the infallable Liberal Bible - but whoever told you that Arnold said in his speech that he watched a non-existent Humphrey-Nixon "debate" and therefore fabricated this story was either lying to you or had no idea what they were talking about.

RE: The Daily Show

>what the fuck are you talking about?

Easy now, Doug. Leave that kinda talk to Zell Miller and Dick Cheney.

RE: The Daily Show

>>what the fuck are you talking about?

>

>Easy now, Doug. Leave that kinda talk to Zell Miller and Dick

>Cheney.

But what about the lie you just told when you accused Arnold of "fabricating" that story in his speech based on your false allegation that he claimed to have watched a non-existent debate? Do you have anything to say about that lie you told - like an apology or retraction, maybe - or are you just content to spit up false allegations and then just walk away quietly when you realize they are false?

As for your sensitivities to mean language, how come that concern only extends to Dick Cheney and Zell Miller, and not to your comrades who accuse Bush of being a lying, murderous deserter who sends people to their deaths so that he can profit and who deliberately allowed 9/11 to occur so that he could consolidate more power and start wars?

RE: The Daily Show

>When he arrived, he was astonished to hear one major party's

>Presidential candidate advocating the same socialist

>philosophy that he had just escaped. Then he heard Richard

>Nixon talk about free enterprise and the unique opportunity it

>brings, and it was the first time he felt like he was in a

>country where the government does not restrict its citizens'

>achivements through interventions in the marketplace.

It was 1968, and he was 21, and other Americans his age (including resident aliens) were being drafted to fight in Vietnam. Schwarzenegger decided he wanted to be a Republican because they were the party of draft dodgers.

==Military service -- Drafted Austrian Army; went AWOL to compete in body-building competition. Jailed for a week. "I didn't care if they locked me up for a whole year. It had been worth it." (Arnold: The Education of a Bodybuilder)==

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0434/robbins.php

The Real Liar

Doug:

No one has told a bigger lie on this message center than you have. The lie I refer to is that you're not going to vote for George W. Bush. You blindly defend just about every word that comes out of a Republican mouth, and it is disingenuous for you to continue to lie about who you'll vote for. You and Dubya share the same myopic black and white view of everything, just like other Neanderthals. Capitalism good, socialism bad. Now why don't you grunt for us and chew on a bone? Of course you'll vote for Bush, because you share his pea-brained weltanschaung. Stop your lying, Doug. You fool no one but yourself.

RE: The Daily Show

>Do you have anything to say about that lie you told -

>like an apology or retraction, maybe - or are you just content

>to spit up false allegations and then just walk away quietly

>when you realize they are false?

Have you considered doing stand-up? This is good shit. :7

RE: The Real Liar

>Doug:

>

>No one has told a bigger lie on this message center than you

>have. The lie I refer to is that you're not going to vote for

>George W. Bush.

Unless you have some way of monitoring Doug69's vote, then how can you state that his statement of intent of not voting for Bush is a lie????

>You blindly defend just about every word that

>comes out of a Republican mouth, and it is disingenuous for

>you to continue to lie about who you'll vote for.

Did I miss something? IMO, Doug69 has always been honest and straight forward about his statements on why he is not voting for Bush for many reasons, so where is the lie? You need to have evidence that he voted for Bush after stating that he wouldn't before you can state that he was disingenous! To accuse him of such, before the fact makes your accusation less than moot.

>You and Dubya share the same myopic black and white view of

>everything, just like other Neanderthals.

If I was a true stickler like some people, I would hit the alert button, as this, imo, is definitely a personal attack!

>Now why don't you grunt for us and chew on a

>bone? Of course you'll vote for Bush, because you share his

>pea-brained weltanschaung.

Damn, where again is the alert button? No personal attacks, yet again, huh?

>Stop your lying, Doug. You fool no one but yourself.

See above comments. You need to have evidence that Doug69 voted for Bush despite his protestations, before you can accuse him of lying. Even if you are privy to such information, you would not have such information until after the election! So I posit the question as to who indeed is the fool?

Sorry, Doug69, as I wouldn't assume to speak for you, but damn it!, I couldn't resist disputing this post that is so full of bs.

RE: The Daily Show

And, as far as I know, young Arnold didn't leave Austria because it was socialist. He left because, after World War II, Austria (shorn of its empire) for decades was a very small, poor country with few opportunities for its young people. In other words, like the poor Mexicans he excoriates, Ahhhnold was an economic immigrant. Of course, in his mind, he was the desirable kind because he was white and European, instead of brown and Latin American. Ahhnold, as I recall, also didn't have a warm and wonderful homelife back in Austria, and leaving for America was a way to escape that. I seriously doubt that Arnold had a political thought in his head at the time he came to the U.S. He just wanted to bulk up, score with girls (and maybe some guys) and get rich quick in the Golden West, all of which he managed to do. It obviously didn't hurt that he also owns an ego the size of Mt. Shasta. But any political awakening the Governator had clearly came long after his Muscle Beach days.

RE: The Real Liar

>No one has told a bigger lie on this message center than you

>have. The lie I refer to is that you're not going to vote for

>George W. Bush. You blindly defend just about every word that

>comes out of a Republican mouth, and it is disingenuous for

>you to continue to lie about who you'll vote for.

As I've said before, people who spend their lives in prison can't comprehend the perspective of those who live outside of their dank, narrow cells. Because you are a slave to your political party, you believe that everyone else must be as well, and can't comprehend the thoughts of someone who isn't. As a result, you resort to yelling LIAR! whenever someone says something that deviates from your sadly constricted view of the world, becuase you just can't believe that there are people who aren't imprisoned by the smelly, suffocating prison bars that crush your mental life.

I'll explain this once more as slowly as possible, not with any hope of success, but out of an unpleasant mixture of charity, magnanimity, and pity.

I agree substantially with George Bush on numerous significant policy issues, including foreign policy, terrorism, tax policy, and many social issues (including gun control and abortion). I think many of his liberal critics are deranged, dishonest, depraved, and stupid, and I think they espouse dangerous and destructive policies.

Are you with me so far, Bucky? Take a minute and process that. Then proceed.

Despite my agreement with Bush on numerous policies, and my contempt for the views and conduct of many of his critics, there are positions and things which Bush and his Administration have done that so violate my core principles and beliefs that, regardless of all else, they prevent me from voting for him. This does not mean I will vote for Kerry, nor does it mean that it changes my agreement with Bush on all of the other issues. It simply means that, for me, Bush has gone over a line that candidates can't cross in order for me to support them in good conscience.

For me, those issues are Bush's support for constitutionalizing the issue of marriage by amending the Constitution to forever preclude gay marriage; his disturbing disregard for critical constitutional liberties (in the form of incarcerating American citizens without any due process whatsoever); and the explosion of discretionary domestic spending combined with a staggering deficit. There are other aspects of the Bush Administration I find disturbing (including the manipulation and politicization of intelligence to induce the country into the Iraq war and pervasive cronyism surrounding the Iraq War and other policy issues), but those are the ones which prevent me, regardless of all else, from supporting him.

I also found this Convention rather creepy in its extremely Orwellian and cultish veneration for the Great Blessed Leader, and its incredibly transparent political exploitation of 9/11 and even Ronald Reagan's funeral. That said, I found the DNC incredibly dishonest and deceitful in presenting itself as exactly that which it is not.

Do you get it now? Andrew Sullivan this morning announced that he won't support Bush's re-election despite his sweeping agreement with him on the most significant issues of the day. In doing so, here's what he said:

"I CANNOT SUPPORT HIM IN NOVEMBER: I will add one thing more. And that is the personal sadness I feel that this president who praises freedom wishes to take it away from a whole group of Americans who might otherwise support many parts of his agenda. To see the second family tableau with one family member missing because of her sexual orientation pains me to the core. And the president made it clear that discriminating against gay people, keeping them from full civic dignity and equality, is now a core value for him and his party. The opposite is a core value for me. Some things you can trade away. Some things you can compromise on. Some things you can give any politician a pass on. But there are other values - of basic human dignity and equality - that cannot be sacrificed without losing your integrity itself. That's why, despite my deep admiration for some of what this president has done to defeat terror, and my affection for him as a human being, I cannot support his candidacy. Not only would I be abandoning the small government conservatism I hold dear, and the hope of freedom at home as well as abroad, I would be betraying the people I love. And that I won't do.

I don't agree with all of that, but it illustrates that not everyone is as simple and party-enslaved as you are, Bucky. Accepting that will help you understand that world better.

RE: The Real Liar

I'm still looking for that statement you mentioned, by the Republican National Committee that condemned Alan Keyes' remarks about Cheney's daughter.

Can you help me find it?

RE: The Real Liar

>I'm still looking for that statement you mentioned, by the

>Republican National Committee that condemned Alan Keyes'

>remarks about Cheney's daughter.

>

>Can you help me find it?

I already answered you in that thread, so chasing me around the Board asking me this question as though I evaded it - when I, in fact, answered it as directly and expressly as possible - only provides further confirming evidence regarding both your intellect and honesty.

Since you invoked that tactic (albeit impotently), though, I'm afriad I'm going to have to use it to demand an answer to the question I asked you - one which you refused to answer and never will: when is the last time an official Democratic committee or a national Democratic presidential campaign condemend the remarks of a Democratic nominee for the U.S. Senate, the way that Republicans condemned the anti-gay remarks by Alan Keyes. Would that be never?

And how can the Republicans be accused of fomenting anti-gay hatred if both the Bush/Cheney campaign and the Illinois State Republican Party (dominated by right-wingers) both condemned the anti-gay remarks by their own Senate candidate.

Until you answer these questions, I will simply paste them in response to every post you write.

RE: The Real Liar

>Since you invoked that tactic (albeit impotently), though, I'm

>afriad I'm going to have to use it to demand an answer to the

>question I asked you - one which you refused to answer and

>never will: when is the last time an official Democratic

>committee or a national Democratic presidential campaign

>condemend the remarks of a Democratic nominee for the U.S.

>Senate, the way that Republicans condemned the anti-gay

>remarks by Alan Keyes.

You didn't ask me that question, you asked it in a response to a post by BewareOfNick. As I pointed out in that thread, though, you have since changed the question since admitting, sort of, that you just made up that part about the Republican National Committee issuing a statement condemning Keyes.

RE: The Real Liar

Note to those scratching their heads about the existence of another thread: It's located on the part of the message board where discussions of politics are prohibited.

The Democratic National Committee has issued a statement condemning Hooboy for not moving it here.

Arnold: How To Lie Like an Austrian

Historians dispute Schwarzenegger's convention comments

Friday, September 3, 2004

VIENNA, Austria (AP) -- Austrian historians are challenging California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger for telling the Republican National Convention that he saw Soviet tanks in his homeland as a child and that he left a "Socialist" country when he moved away in 1968.

Recalling that the Soviets once occupied part of Austria in the aftermath of World War II, Schwarzenegger told the convention on Tuesday: "I saw tanks in the streets. I saw communism with my own eyes."

Historians, however, are questioning Schwarzenegger's version of postwar history -- if not his enduring popularity among Austrians who admire him for rising from a penniless immigrant to the highest official in America's most populous state.

"It's a fact -- as a child he could not have seen a Soviet tank in Styria," the southeastern province where Schwarzenegger was born and raised, historian Stefan Karner told the Vienna newspaper Kurier.

Schwarzenegger, now a naturalized U.S. citizen, was born on July 30, 1947, when Styria and the neighboring province of Carinthia belonged to the British zone. At the time, postwar Austria was occupied by the four wartime allies, which also included the United States, the Soviet Union and France.

The Soviets already had left Styria in July 1945, less than three months after the end of the war, Karner noted.

Margita Thompson, spokeswoman for Schwarzenegger, defended Schwarzenegger's speech.

"Never in there did the governor reference that the tanks were where he grew up. It was a reference to visiting Soviet-occupied Austria," she said.

In his convention address, Schwarzenegger also said: "As a kid, I saw the Socialist country that Austria became after the Soviets left" in 1955 and Austria regained its independence.

But Martin Polaschek, a law history scholar and vice rector of Graz University, told Kurier that Austria was governed by coalition governments, including the conservative People's Party and the Social Democratic Party. Between 1945 and 1970, all the nation's chancellors were conservatives -- not Socialists.

What's more, when Schwarzenegger left in 1968, Austria was run by a conservative government headed by People's Party Chancellor Josef Klaus, a staunch Roman Catholic and a sharp critic of both the Socialists and the Communists ruling in countries across the Iron Curtain.

Schwarzenegger "confuses a free country with a Socialist one," said Polaschek, referring to East European Communist officials' routine descriptions of their countries as Socialist.

Thompson said the governor was "talking about a socialistic-style of government and governing that he experienced when living in Austria."

Polaschek saw the moderate Republican governor's recollections at the convention as a tactical move. Schwarzenegger, he said, was "using the old Communist enemy image for Bush's election campaign."

"He did not speak as a historian, after all, but as a politician," Polaschek said.

Norbert Darabos, a ranking official of Austria's opposition Social Democratic Party, sharply criticized Schwarzenegger's "disdain for his former homeland."

"The Terminator is constructing a rather bizarre Austria image," he said.

But many ordinary Austrians seemed to be in a forgiving mood Friday over the gaffes.

"Maybe he has a wrong recollection -- it's so many years since he left," said Wilma Fadrany, 32, a Vienna waitress.

"There must be political reasons for such comments," she said. "You've got to tell the (convention delegates) what they want to hear in order to win them around. Politicians always talk the way it fits into their agenda."