New Jersey Dem Governor McGreevey Resigns, Outs himself.

mansniffing, you are at once cogent and profound. Further, I concur with ramfan that the Gov is cute -- probably has a mouthful of a cock soft and I love his thin lips around his big mouth. A super 69. Although, that Backa Baa is no less a runner up who could, I think, fuck your eye balls out with his hard cock shoved all the way up one's butt.x(

The reason the resignation is being held to be effective on November 15th is so that there can not be a special election in this election cycle. McGreavy's term runs until 2006. By resigning in November, the office passes to the president of the state senate until an election can be held on 2006. If he resigns by September 3rd, then there is time for a special election in November to fill the remaining piece of his term. If there is a special election for govenor in November, the backlash against McGreavy would most certainly bring in a Republican govenor. New Jersey is currently consided a "safe" state for Kerry. But adding a gubenetorial election this November, with ant-McGreavy backlash may put New Jersey back in play for W.

Making his resignation effective November 15 allows the govenor's office to stay in Democratic hands, and does not give the Republicans a strong issue to draw voters to the polls at the same time as the presidential election.

The execuse about "orderly transition" is spin. The govenor of Connecticut resigned on one days notice, and the govenor of Indiana died in office. Those states kept running.

McGreavy may have wanted to wait to announce his resignation, but it seems as the blackmailer was about to go public.

So the "terrorism expert" dude not only did he not get a penny from the governor but also is now without a job and will never get another job. He should have thought of this before he thought of bringing the governor down. He deserves it.

I can't get too excited about an American governor giving a state job to his male lover when we have just had the spectacle of the head of the national Canadian post office (Canada Post) resign after it was revealed that he had given 85 of his closest friends and relatives executive positions in the multibillion dollar enterprise (it is a quasi-government corporation). The CEO who resigned was a close buddy of the late Pierre Trudeau and only got the job because of his political connections to the ruling Liberal Party in Ottawa.This same man spent $20,000 per month over the last 8 years that he held the top two jobs at Canada Post (first as Chairman then as CEO) on personal expenses (travel and entertaining).

I don't know why a sexual liaison makes any difference to a familial or friendship based one. Corruption is corruption, whether you're doling out the favors to friends or cousins or lovers, it's all the same. And McGreevey seems to have been pretty small-time in his largesse. So I say, "Get over it".

:+

I think there's another tragedy here. Clearly McGreevey is an example of a very smart, charismatic, eloquent guy. He had everything it took to be a political star at the beginning of his career. But like so many gay men (and lesbians) he knew that a big political career wouldn't happen for him if he was out. So he got married, suppressed his sexuality (I suppose), and pretended.

The problem here is that a man knew his talent and intelligence wasn't enough in the United States. He knew that his sexuality had to be the "right" one.

Politicians are not the only ones who have to hide. Even in New York, I know Wall Streeters who must hide. Gays who want to reach the highest reaches of corporate America get trophy wives or "beards" to attend the "right" parties with them.

No one can know what McGreevey's career could have been, if he could have been open from the start. But I'll wager it would have been a whole different ballgame.

Homophobia has ruined his life, but not, of course, without plenty of help from McGreevey himself. Once making the Faustian choice to hide his sexuality for career advancement, he kept making other compromises. It's incredible that such a smart guy can make so bad a decision as to appoint his lover to a government job for which he is unqualified, effectively putting him on the public dole.

What a tragedy for him, for us, but most of all for America. I do hope that younger gays will learn something from this about the importance of coming out. If you put it off, it'll come back to haunt you, so just take the consequences early and get on with life.

I'm not so sure marriage was a calculated move for his political career. He may have been genuinely confused about his sexual identity, and he was in a social milieu (small town New Jersey Irish Catholic) in which it is hard to resist going the "normal" route, no matter what one's career interests. I've seen similar developments among acquaintances with similar backgrounds. In fact, he's been married twice, with children by both wives--once would seem to be enough if he just wanted to establish hetero qualifications.

This is a dilemma every gay man faces in his career advancement. If you come out early your chances for promotion are jeopardized in many professions. If you stay in the closet, if you are talented and work hard, you advance.

In my own case, I was in the work force when attitudes here in Canada were much as they are in the US today. Things have now changed and I would not have been blocked from getting to the top as I was because I was gay.

The other day I turned on the television and saw a former colleague being interviewed on the national news. He was so far in the closet when I worked with him in the eighties, he was outta sight! Today he is at the top of his organization. But at what personal price?? Who knows? As for me, I am happy in my skin and have found other outlets, both intellectual and otherwise }( to keep myself amused.

He's also a foreign national and, if he's convicted of blackmail, will be deported. Sometimes gold-diggers get way to clever for their own good!

>>Getting caught hiring male prostitutes while governor

>>is nowhere near as serious as getting caught giving your

>male

>>lover a state job.

>And nowhere near as fun as giving him a blow job.

Well, Rick, the governor likely didn't know that you were right there in the New York metropolitan area and would have done absolutely anything he wanted in return for a fraction of the money he probably spent on that Israeli guy. But perhaps it's just as well he didn't know. At least a few of his constituents may feel some sympathy for a man who fell in love and made a fool of himself in the process. But the same people would probably feel only disgust if the story was that McGreevey had hired male prostitutes.

What the Governeur said about himself is exactly the same for me. I always knew males turned me on -- hated that Prom routine in High School. Never thought about "coming out" and married, because I loved her,in my mid twenties, had three children and a very successful business career with an active social life.

Had there been a Gay Communittee in prep school, I'm sure I would have joined, thereby losing out on having and raising a family and who knows about where I'd be in buisness.

Therefore, in my case: 1)I think the apparent urgency and ease of coming out is misss guided and wrong. I think many young teens are perplexd, to say the least, about sexuality. They are not ready to make a life long commitment by "coming out". 2)I think my life was enriched by being married and socially balanced, as it were, even while I had a male soul mate from college and fantasized about male sex. I didn't even know what it sounded like until I was over forty five. 3)While at the Marriott Marquie in NY, I got a kid from the Gaiety across the street to come back, he emerged from the shower with a towel around him, I didn't know what to do, he flung himself spread eagle and naked on top of the bed for me, and with that basic gutteral sound I immediately sucked his fat uncut cock (he was a smooth small body'd Brazilian-Japanese kid, stunning)in my mouth and knew that then I was a whole person, at last home with myself. With agencies like Campus, escorts are routine when I travel. 4) Coming out would not do me any philosophical or social benefit. 5)Lastly, I conclude that gay life is very difficult. After all, you have two men, both with the instincts to seed, seed, and seed. There is nothing in sexuality, to me, more explosive and natural than male sex, expecially getting (giving) fucked and deep kissed, but after that, the companionship is a challenge and the social settings have huge voids. I love to feel and suck twink cock, and I love my married life. Hence, I support the Governeur sans his stupid errors of judgement. x(

>>>Getting caught hiring male prostitutes while governor

>>>is nowhere near as serious as getting caught giving your

>>male

>>>lover a state job.

>

>>And nowhere near as fun as giving him a blow job.

>

>Well, Rick, the governor likely didn't know that you were

>right there in the New York metropolitan area and would have

>done absolutely anything he wanted in return for a fraction of

>the money he probably spent on that Israeli guy.

Hi, Woodlawn. I don't think you understood my post above so I will explain it to you. You see, that was called a "pun," which is a play on words -- in this case, on different senses of the same word. You said, "state job" and I said "blow job." Same word, different meaning, therein lies the humor.

>Hi, Woodlawn. I don't think you understood my post above so I

>will explain it to you. You see, that was called a "pun,"

>which is a play on words -- in this case, on different senses

>of the same word. You said, "state job" and I said "blow

>job." Same word, different meaning, therein lies the humor.

But "state job" and "blow job" are not the same word with different meanings, they are different words with different meanings, no?

So you were trying to be funny? Well, better luck next time.

But small town NJ Irish Catholic was not really his adult milieu. He went to Columbia, Georgetown and Harvard, i.e. very sophisticated and urbane. Also very success oriented, and I'm sure he was not the only smart gay guy who chose to go the "normal" route so as not to impede his progress.

Of course, I admit that this is only surmise on my part. I don't know him personally. But that is what it appears the situation was from news reports.

It's interesting to read posters who made this compromise and feel it was worth it. Although it's not clear if they are still in the closet or not. As one poster remarked, it is true that male/male relationships are very different from male/female. Men are driven to "seed, seed, seed" as he said. Women, in general, want fidelity and nests. All the same, gay couples who do not try to mimick the hetero paradigm can certainly find strong, lasting relationships.

>Had there been a Gay Communittee in prep school, I'm sure I

>would have joined, thereby losing out on having and raising a

>family

Gay couples are families and they can have children. You wouldn't have lost out on anything except lying to your wife and kids (for the record, I am NOT being judgmental and I think everyone has the right to live their life the way they choose to live it -- but a fact is a fact).

5)Lastly, I conclude that gay life is very

>difficult.

Your life is only as difficult as you make it. I'm gay and my life is pretty damn easy. I would think that living in the closet and always having to worry about being found out is what's difficult, no?

>After all, you have two men, both with the

>instincts to seed, seed, and seed.

And to shop, raise kids (or pets or petunias), make a nice home, go to the movies, order in Chinese food, watch sports (or Golden Girls), etc., etc. A gay relationship based only on sex is the same as a straight one based on sex: it doesn't last. Derek and I have a deep-seated friendship and the sex (while really good) is really not very important in the scheme of things.

>There is nothing in

>sexuality, to me, more explosive and natural than male sex,

>expecially getting (giving) fucked and deep kissed, but after

>that, the companionship is a challenge and the social settings

>have huge voids.

Derek and I spend almost 24 hours a day together, compared to most straight couples who have separate activities and friends. I don't see how the companionship between two men is a challenge in any way (well, there is a challenge when I have to find a new hiding spot in our apartment for my latest ebay purchase). As for the social settings having huge voids, I am totally in the dark.

Rick, I was extending some of the thoughts luv2play presented. I did (do) have a soul mate from college . . . that has been a poignantly deep and enriching experience for me since it just happened that way for me. For me the double-standard has worked including the wonderful deep love painfulness it brings with it.

It seems you and yours are soul mates. Both of you are lucky for each other. It shows that the gods can pay attention and do their thing. Thanks for sharing with us . .. . . .Yours, a hellofagreatcocksuck&deepthroater nobody knows about. P.S. I am really happiest with a cock in my mouth and melon cheeks in my hands with a finger on a rosebud and hold dearly my associations with Taboo, although those things can't be an only diet or way; nonetheless, they are an important part of my being and cannot imagine living as I am, without them. I agree with what the Gov said about himself. Its me too.

>Thanks for sharing with us

And thanks for your honest and heartfelt response, too.

RE: Methinks he was going to be outted....

>>Anyone have pics of Golan Cipel, his "advisor" who is

>suing him for sexual harassment... Just curious to see if he

>was worth it...

>

>I think this is the guy.

>

>http://www.drudgereport.com/mcg.jpg

I don't think it was worth it.

I'd rather screw McGreevys wife.

The Golan Heights!

TRENTON, New Jersey (AP) -- The man who claims Gov. James E. McGreevey sexually harassed him was pushing for a cash settlement of up to $50 million before the governor decided to announce that he was gay and had an extramarital affair, sources told The Associated Press.

Golan Cipel's demands also included a last-minute push to have McGreevey's administration approve development plans for a private medical college in the state, two senior members of the administration said Saturday. Both sources spoke on condition of anonymity.

>>Thanks for sharing with us

>

>And thanks for your honest and heartfelt response, too.

Rick - I agree with all of what you said to Jack in reply to his post describing his bi lifestyle. I also think it was great that the exchange took place with no swipes being made by either side. Sort of a "agree to disagree" sort of thing.

Jack mentioned that he thought the gay lifestyle would be difficult to live. I really don't understand that. I would think that having two completly different lifestyles to balance would be the more difficult choice.

I usually feel sorry for people in Jack's position as I feel they have missed a great deal by denying their true identity. But in his case I supose he is a genuine bisexual and can probably operate on both sides of the fence with equal comfort. However in my opinion he is missing the intense joy that a gay man can feel when he is commited to a relationship with another man. He makes it clear that sexually his main satisfaction comes from having a cock in his mouth and his hands on a guy's ass while fingering his hole. What do you think he fantasizes about when he is having sex with his spouse?

It is not clear whether his college "soulmate" is just a very close friend or if they actually get physical with each other.

I guess his lifestyle works for him and that's a good thing - I think! But how can he be truly happy living a lie, always having to lie to the woman he claims he loves. How does he excuse to himself his adultry? What tangled webs we do weave.......

RE: The Golan Heights!

>

>

>

>

>TRENTON, New Jersey (AP) -- The man who claims Gov. James E.

>McGreevey sexually harassed him was pushing for a cash

>settlement of up to $50 million before the governor decided to

>announce that he was gay and had an extramarital affair,

>sources told The Associated Press.

I have read this on several site including the NY Times. Frankly, it blows my mind. Trying to extract $50 MILLION...... the man must surly be mental!

The other thing that has me scratching my head is that he reportedly was using his own lawyer to negotiate the payment of the blackmail. Does it sound reasonable that a lawyer would involve himself in an extortion attempt? Wouldn't he be disbarred in a nano-second?

Zip (and Rick), "What do you think he fantasizes about .." is very funny since its probably the same thing. Trust me. I am a loyal person and cocksucker and prouder deep throater. In fact, sucking spent cock down, with quality time for my tongue to roam around their cum slit makes my heart go pitter patter -- sooooo nice.

This is very interesting. A fundamental we all usually overlook is: first, you have no idea how important or how meaninful it is for me to tallk with you about this and I can because, secondly, the internet is a communication pathway nobody had before, before there was silence, muted silence, painful silence. It came upon me quickly when I got on this net thing in the mid nineties, that here I can express my subconsious, my ID, view gay porn which certainly is porn but to me shows me other people appreciate the same things -- its, the internet, is better than therapy (which I never had or felt I needed to have). The internet has also made it possible for me to arrange "meetings" while I travel -- I wonder without the internet if I would have forever fantazied what making love with a male would be.

So it comes to the lie. I predict no matter what I say, it is a lie. But, I can't see how "coming out" would have helped anything --I have been very successful in business, sit on the Board of Directors of several companies, have served as President on two Board of Directors, some of my friends have their own Jets, I attend numerous Black Tie functions each year -- I just don't think "coming out" would have help me achieve that, having fallen in love with my wife, the total family involvement certainly was a part of my business activities and had I committed myself by "coming out" when I was, say, twenty, I would have missed the life I had, though I always knew I was a cocksucker from the get-go.

In my life, I do respect that everybody is an infinite soul. That means the towel guy in the Waldorf men's room, or a taxi driver, or anybody else equally shares the urgency of the moment in our lives and is precious in their own way. One Christmas, I gave Billy, a NY escort I had been seeing for about a year and a half, 6'1", 145# soaking wet, with long thin fingers and a size 14 shoe, whom I never never got used to holding his big fat (it) in my hands, I gave him a pair of lined leather gloves (he was a pianist and it had been a cold blowie winter) and a silver picture frame for when he fell in love with somebody -- and he told me he simply had not gotten many Christmas presents to unwrap which puddled me up on the spot. He loved the "you do me, I'll do you" routine. I do too. So is that all a lie. I wonder if it has to be this way or that way.

That's why what the Gov said, speaks for me too. That's why with the way the internet has allowed me to be honest with myself and with you, and for you to talk with me about these things that are so profound in my life, that "coming out" is for me a short step with nothing to gain in my lifestyle and a step I would caution young men from doing too early in their lifes. Thank you for hanging in with me on this, I appreciate being here with you.

>I have been very successful in business, sit on the

>Board of Directors of several companies, have served as

>President on two Board of Directors, some of my friends have

>their own Jets, I attend numerous Black Tie functions each

>year --

Openly gay people can and do all of the above. Do you really think all openly gay people are unsuccessful schlubs?

>"coming out" is

>for me a short step with nothing to gain in my lifestyle and a

>step I would caution young men from doing too early in their

>lifes.

It's fine for you to have made your own decisions about your life, and I respect that, but for you to caution others against coming out and being a whole & honest person is wrong. What do you mean by "too early," anyway? Are you suggesting that someone should stay in the closet and get married to a woman to further his career (which I don't think is necessary), and then come out later when he's already lived a few decades of a lie? Again, I do not judge others who are closeted but I think the best advice to every gay person is to come out, and the worst advice is to stay in.

I would caution young men from doing too early in their

>lifes.

I have never heard a single person who is openly gay - literally, not a single one - say that they think they came out "too early." I have, however, heard many, many openly gay men lament the fact that they waited too long to come out.

"Cautioning" someone that they should not come out too early is like "cautioning" someone not to be too honest or not to be too hard-working or not to be too happy. There is no such thing as coming out too early.

It's nice that you feel you have found a place to talk about your struggles and conflicts and fears and dishonesty. But you should really refrain from encouraging young gay men to follow your footsteps into the closet and sham marriages and lies. By definition, the sooner soeone gets off of that path, the better.

I'm not sure what jack means by cautioning young men against coming out "too soon." If he means that coming out involves making an irrevocable choice at a time when a young man may not fully appreciate all the ramifications of such a choice, I agree with him.

In our society, being gay has one thing in common with being black. If you have some recent African American ancestors you are considered "black" even though you have as many or more Caucasian ancestors. That is why a number of eyebrows were raised when Strom Thurmond's biracial daughter recently announced that she will apply for membership in an organization of descendants of Confederate soldiers. And if you tell people that you feel sexual desire toward other men you will be considered "gay" even though you may also enjoy the company of women. There is a wide spectrum of human sexual orientation, with many gradations between those who are completely gay and completely straight. It is wrong to tell men that they have some sort of moral obligation to announce their homoerotic desires when the result may be to label them in a way that does not truly describe their sexuality.

Sexuality is part of life. Someone whose entire existence revolves around being gay may not understand that it is not the only part. A young man should certainly consider the social ramifications of coming out, especially whether the labeling that will result truly reflects the person that he is, before making a decision. And there is certainly nothing wrong with taking plenty of time before making that decision -- there's no deadline, after all. It's not like filing a tax return.

If some people feel no doubt or uncertainty about their sexuality, good for them. But they have no business trying to make others who may not be so certain feel that they are doing something immoral by keeping their own counsel.

Rick I totally agree with you. Obviously I cannot possibly tell Jack what would have happened to his career had he come out instead of getting married to a woman, etc. But I do think the illusion that young people might have that life as a gay man is empty of family and frustrating for a career, is just that -- an illusion. Sure, there are situations where your career may be impeded, but there are often ways around that. If you really want children, that's possible too. Especially today, these things are increasingly possible, and there are plenty of openly gay people who manage to get around the remaining societal blockades. I think the last thing a young gay man (or woman)should do today is to give up and make a compromise that he will very likely rue one day. To get back to the original post, McGreevey's case makes this point, in spite of its many complicating factor.