Conclave

When did/does it begin?

It is slated to begin on April 18th.

What is Conclave?

It's a secretive private meeting held periodically in the Vatican for an exclusive club called the College of Cardinals, the public front for it's real name: Men in Dresses!

Tri my friend it is "Men in Red Dresses" sorry to correct you. HUGS Chuck

Well, from what I can see on TV it's also Men in Matching Black Dresses With Unflatteringly Large Magenta Sashes and Matching Piping, and Men in Matching White Dresses With Slutty Vermilion Accents, and several other tacky matching outfits and hats!!! }(

Isn't this drag for mainly old white(with afew African and Asians thrown in) men. Almost all staying with each other in an all-male hotel, with some even sharing rooms. What time's the floor show?

We even know when a performance ends. There's a puff of black smoke. Up to four shows per day. And when they are all done with their drag show, you see a puff of white.

By the way, the camerlengo supposedly didn't use the silver hammer when tappinh JP II's noggin. Instead, he reportedly yelled "Karol, Karol, Karol" When "il papa" didn't answer, he was pronounced a gonner. Questions: Isn't that what Mike Brady used to yell to hisw wife when little Cindy went wee-wee in her panties?

Pope Ratzinger

Here's a rather disturbing report from Michael Novak at National Review - which, if nothing else, knows its Catholicism - claiming that Cardinal Josef Ratzinger, the string-pulling mastermind behind Pope JP II's theological rigidity - is a serious favorite to become the next surrogate Master/Daddy:

________________________________

RATZINGER GAINING [Michael Novak]

Now that the Italian press is reporting that Cardinal Josef Ratzinger, a hero of the Second Vatican Council (1962-65) and perhaps the closest intellectual associate of Pope John Paul II during the past 25 years, has already received the support of 40, maybe 50 cardinals, out of the 77 votes needed to be elected the next Pope, it is time for the American media to begin searching into the mind and heart of one so close to JPII. The Pope and Ratzinger, his closest cardinal friend, met for long discussion at least once a week, and often twice a week. Their theological and philosophical commitments to ideas like the primacy of love (glimpsed by the newborn child in the eyes of its mother, and felt in her touch, from the first moments of birth) and their bold visions for the future of the church united them, although they also loved to argue. Ratzinger's theological mind is encyclopedic, sweeping over nearly all of Christian history, and his interests--in bioethics, for instance, and in the analysis of history and culture-- draw him into excited engagement with contemporary problems. Recently, he published a short book called Without Roots on problems of nihilism and relativism in contemporary Europe, in dialogue with the President of the Italian Senate, the intelligent and probing Senator Marcello Pera. In the European and Italian context, Ratzinger is strongly pro-American on issues of religious liberty, and rather Tocquevillian in his interpretation of the American experience. He has expressed a certain disdain for efforts three decades ago to wed Catholicism to Marxist economics--he had seen too much of the latter close-up. He has a strong commitment to honest and frank ecumenism, based upon fraternal love but not upon false and mealy-mouthed pretendings of unity, where there is no unity.

It was Ratzinger who presided over the magnificently conducted funeral of John Paul II, the greatest funeral in the whole history of Rome along the axes both of history and of global reach. Many said: He looked every inch the Pope. Most surprising to many were the warmth and poetry of his sermon, evoking Pope John Paul II so realistically that at several points the vast crowds broke out in affectionate applause.

And, actually, my own sources in Rome now suggest that the number of cardinals supporting Ratzinger is closer to 55, leaving him at this early point some 22 short. Some caution should be exercised here, since in Rome counting of this sort is in most cases not actually by head, as is done in Washington by a Senate or House whip. In Rome, estimates are usually made by inference from known connections of cardinals and their close associates. However, some people in Rome (not necessarily with experience in American mayoralty elections) do know how to count votes. Those I know of in this camp are keeping their cards close to their chest. But they do not dispute the published numbers, except to hint that the true number is higher.

What no one disputes is that the numbers of the "progressives," once gathered around Cardinals Donneels of Belgium and Martini of Milan (now retired), have collapsed. There are not even enough of them to block the majority seeking a "Continuator" of John Paul II's legacy. The loyalty expressed by millions all around the world to John Paul II became so visible at the funeral that "Continuator" is now the motif. Whether that mantle falls on Ratzinger--or, perhaps, on someone younger and more vigorous--such as Angelo Scola of Venice, a truly brilliant and creative student of the much-beloved theologian Hans Urs von Balthasar, will soon enough become clear. There are four or five who could fill this place in the batting order, or take their turn next time around.

Posted at 09:05 PM

Oh, that Conclave.

>Tri my friend it is "Men in Red Dresses" sorry to correct

>you. HUGS Chuck

Tri when I wrote this I was talking of the formal wear their Choir Dress what you referenced is the everyday wear the black dresses with the Red Sashes. HUGS Chuck

RE: Pope Ratzinger

That magenta pipping is especially effective at getting the best cuts of beef and veal at at the good Italian restaurants.

:+

RE: Pope Ratzinger

Ratzinger? A hero of Vatican II? I don't know where this guy gets his information, but Ratzinger fought long and hard to prevent the reforms of the Second Vatican Council. Once John Paul II was elected, Ratzinger had the ear of an ally in turning back some of the reforms that had taken hold.

If Cardinal Ratzinger is elected as the next Pope, I shudder to think what will become of the Catholic Church.

Dan

Taking responsibility

They will have nobody to blame but themselves, and say

'it was God's will!'

They are truly out of touch with humanity and the Universe.

So be it!

Amen!

;(

RE: Pope Ratzinger

>Ratzinger? A hero of Vatican II? I don't know where this

>guy gets his information, but Ratzinger fought long and hard

>to prevent the reforms of the Second Vatican Council.

Not everyone on the planet thinks the same way as you do. There are a lot of Catholics who consider the "reforms" of the Second Vatican Council to be highly destructive and misguided. Therefore, anyone - such as Cardinal Ratzinger - who fought against those measures would be considered a hero.

>John Paul II was elected, Ratzinger had the ear of an ally in

>turning back some of the reforms that had taken hold.

>

>If Cardinal Ratzinger is elected as the next Pope, I shudder

>to think what will become of the Catholic Church.

It all depends on how you see the Church and what its function is. Many people see the Church as one of the few institutions which hold firm to its moral absolutes, ones which aren't subject to change like the wind every time "progress" occurs.

It's hard to think of an attribute of the Church that is unique or notable other than its time-tested adherence to its principles, for better or worse. If the Church starts "reforming" and "progressing" in the direction of every other trend and fad, it's hard to see what its value will be to anyone.

While American Catholics have become increasingly willing to deviate from Church doctrine, the Church's appeal in Africa, Asia and Latin America is skyrocketing. For those who see the U.S. as the center of the universe, it's easy to see the Catholic Church as a declining institution. For those who don't view the world this way, it's easy to see the Church as a vibrant, growing force in the world - because of, rather than despite, its adherence to moral absolutes.

There's no denying that the outpouring of affection and love for Pope JP II was rather extreme and intense. In light of that, it's rather hard to claim that it's a universally held opinion that liberalism is what the Church needs.

RE: Pope Rat's Ass

Perhaps the Church is growing in Africa, but in almost all of Latin America its growth isn't skyrocketing, it's skydiving! In most of the countries of Latin America evangelical Protestant churches are booming, having attracted millions of disaffected Catholics. Among those who haven't formally left the Church, the same phenomenon visible in Europe is happening in Latin America: people are just walking away from the Church and not coming back. In countries like Argentina (one of the few countries in Latin America where Catholicism is still the established church) nearly 90% of Catholics are non-observant and profoundly disagree with the Church's positions on personal sexual morality. (The Church's active encouragement and support of the murderous military regime also drove millions away. In today's papers it's reported that a formal investigation has begun about the role of Buenos Aires's Cardinal Bergoglio during the miltary dictatorship. He's accused of having directly "fingered" two fellow Jesuits to the military for continuing to work with the poor in slum communities after he advised them to stop. The two Jesuits were arrested and tortured. One has since died, the other is still alive and living in Uruguay. Bergoglio was being mentioned as "papabile," but this should scuttle his chances.)

Virtually everywhere in Latin America education has improved in the past 50 years. So has modern communication, which means that TV and telephones have reached the most isolated settlements, with the Internet not far behind. Increasing population means there isn't enough arable land available for all the poor country people, who have migrated by the millions into the big urban areas, where they're also exposed to new sources of information and new ways of thinking. The result is similar to what has happened in most of the more developed countries: people question the received religious wisdom they grew up with, find they can't agree with it, discard it, and drop out of the Church. As long as the Church continues on its present course, it will continue to lose its hold in Latin America.

The newspapers here, in the most Catholic region in the world, are naturally full of news about the upcoming papal election. The consensus at the moment seems to be that Ratzinger won't be able to get the necessary 2/3 vote. Challenging him in the first round will be those who want an Italian to be Pope, but the pro-Italian group is split between supporters of a conservative and a moderate, so neither is likely to be elected. As in the last conclave, that opens the door to the possibility of an outsider. He could be another European, or a Latin American. Given the precarious situation of the Church in its greatest remaining stronghold, electing a Latin American would certainly shore up its position. However, if the new Pope is as conservative as his predecessor, even if he's Latin American, the long-term benefit will probably be nil. The problems facing Latin Americans today aren't going away, and conservative Catholicism has little to offer people in modern Latin American society.

RE: Pope Rat's Ass

" He's accused of having directly "fingered" two fellow Jesuits..."

hehehehehehehehhehehehe

BTW, Im not sure about Ratzinger...hes a little too hardcore

Also we can speculate until the day is long but one of the reasons for the conclave is so no one will be able to speculate or leak info to the outside. Although other cardinals may like Ratzingers views and theologies, there are a number of other factors by which the Pope is chosen. I will leave you to wallow in curiousity about what they are, but will give you a few now :

1)Poise

2)Grace - both natural and supernatural

3)Symmetry - not everyone looks good in the head gear

Historically :

1) Should be Italian, but we do have Ratzinger and the Nigerian cardinal

2) Should be a male...think they had some crazy chick way back when who declared herself the Pope

3) Should be Roman Catholic...this one is a must

4) Cant presently be an active member with more than 100 posts at Hooboys

RE: Pope Rat's Ass

>4) Cant presently be an active member with more than 100 posts

>at Hooboys Daddy's

RE: Pope Rat's Ass

yo, how do you learn how to do the strike through !!!!???

Perhaps that miracle could be credited to your canonization:-)

Strikethroughs are cool...its kind of like the extermination of an idea

RE: Pope Rat's Ass

I am straight gay.

I love bitches men.

RE: Pope Ratzinger

What reforms of the Second Vatican Council do you find destructive? Adherence to its principles for better or worse? Would that include protecting and caring for children? How about the purchase of marriage annulments?

The Catholic Church is not the Pope, Cardinals and Bishops who hand down decrees. Nor is it Vatican City or the church buildings throughout the world.

The Catholic Church is made up of all the faithful. One can still be faithful and not agree with everything that the hierarchy purports to be the "truth". Throughout history, blindly following fallible men has resulted in terrible crimes being perpetrated against innocent people.

Dan

RE: Pope Ratzinger

Throughout history,

>blindly following fallible men has resulted in terrible crimes

>being perpetrated against innocent people.

>

>Dan

Dan:

Sadly, this is so very true. We see it all around us.